Women and marriage

 

Daf Yomi this week (כתובות ע״ה) had a fascinating Gemara about women and marriage.

בְּקָרִיבֵיהּ! האִיהִי בְּכׇל דְּהוּ נִיחָא לַהּ, כִּדְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ. דְּאָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: ״טָב לְמֵיתַב טַן דּוּ מִלְּמֵיתַב אַרְמְלוּ״, אַבָּיֵי אָמַר: דְּשׁוּמְשְׁמָנָא גַּבְרָא כּוּרְסְיַהּ בֵּי חָרָאתָא רָמֵי לַהּ. ורַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: דְּנַפָּסָא גַּבְרָא, תִּיקְרְיֵיהּ בְּסִיפֵּי בָבָא וְתֵיתִיב. רַב אָשֵׁי אָמַר: דְּקַלָּסָא גַּבְרָא, לָא בָּעֲיָא טְלָפְחֵי לְקִידְרָא. תָּנָא: וְכוּלָּן מְזַנּוֹת וְתוֹלוֹת בְּבַעְלֵיהֶן.

There is a difference between a man and a woman in this regard, for it is amenable to her to be with any man, flawed though he may be, as taught by Reish Lakish: As Reish Lakish said that women say: It is better to dwell together as two [tan du] than to dwell alone as if a widow. Women will prefer any marriage to remaining single. Similarly, Abaye said that women say: One whose husband is small as an ant, nevertheless places her seat among the noblewomen, as she considers herself important by virtue of the mere fact that she is married. 6Rav Pappa said a different maxim expressing a similar idea: One whose husband is a wool comber [nafsa], a lowly occupation, calls him to sit with her at the entrance to the house, as she is proud of him and happy to be married. Similarly, Rav Ashi said: Even one whose husband is lowly [kalsa] does not require lentils for her pot. She is so happy with the simple fact that she is married that she does not mind even if he does not provide her with food. The Gemara comments that it is taught: And all of these women who have lowly husbands yet appear so satisfied with their marriage commit adultery and attribute the birth of the children to their husbands. This is another reason why they are so keen to be married

 

RYBS claimed that this chazaka is built into the nature of women and can never change.

Beautiful Breasts

 Daf Yomi just learned the following Gemara (כתובות ע"ה)

תָּנֵי רַבִּי נָתָן בִּירָאָה: בֵּין דַּדֵּי אִשָּׁה טֶפַח. סָבַר רַב אַחָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרָבָא קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב אָשֵׁי לְמֵימַר טֶפַח לִמְעַלְּיוּתָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב אָשֵׁי: גַּבֵּי מוּמִין תַּנְיָא, וְכַמָּה? אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: שָׁלֹשׁ אֶצְבָּעוֹת

 Rabbi Natan Bira’a taught: A handbreadth between a woman’s breasts. The amora’im have a dispute concerning the meaning of Rabbi Natan Bira’a’s statement: Rav Aḥa, son of Rava, thought to say before Rav Ashi that this means a handbreadth between a woman’s breasts is perfection and considered beautiful. Rav Ashi said to him: This baraita is taught with regard to blemishes, and it means that if her breasts are separated by a gap this wide, it is a blemish. The Gemara asks: And how much of a gap is considered normal? Abaye said: The width of three fingers.

This Gemara raises a number of questions:

1. The only way to see the distance between a womans breasts is to see her topless. When a woman is wearing clothes there is no way to see this. So how did Abaye know this? Did he go and stare at naked women? How many naked women did  he see besides his wife? How is this permissible?
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for some men a gap of 3 fingers is beautiful for other men it may be either smaller or larger. How can the Gemara set a rule on something like this?
3. How did they come up with these exact measurements? Did they go and measure women's chests? Does the average man when he sees beautiful breasts have any idea how far apart they are?
   
4. What is the relevance? Why does the Gemara need to tell us the definition of beautiful breasts?
   

This makes me angry not sympathetic

When I saw this it made me very angry. This person is not asking for tzedaka because some tragedy happened to him. Rather, he is asking for tzedaka because he has NEVER tried to actually earn a living. He brought 15 children in the world and sat in kollel and didn't work. And now, as a result of HIS CHOICES he is poor so he wants people like me to pay for his daughters wedding. Why should I? It gets worse. He wants people to pay for a hall and a caterer. I made a wedding at the beginning of covid in my backyard, no hall no real caterer. Covid showed that it was very possible. So someone who has no money should make a wedding in a backyard (for free) and cook the food themselves with help from friends/neighbors and save all that money. Why should I pay for a hall and a caterer for him? If he wants to sit and learn and not make money then he should be מסתפק במועט. The Mishna says פת במלח תאכל not catered meals. Why should the person who sacrificed his learning, went to school, goes to work and makes some money pay for the wedding of this selfish person who only thinks about his own spiritual growth ignoring everyone else?

The fact is that this request is anti-Torah. The Gemara in Pesachim 113 states:

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב לְרַב כָּהֲנָא: הֲפוֹךְ בִּנְבֵילְתָּא וְלָא תֵּיפוֹךְ בְּמִילֵּי. פְּשׁוֹט נְבֵילְתָּא בְּשׁוּקָא וּשְׁקֵיל אַגְרָא, וְלָא תֵּימָא ״כָּהֲנָא אֲנָא, וְגַבְרָא רַבָּא אֲנָא, וְסַנְיָא בִּי מִלְּתָא״.

Rav said to Rav Kahana: It is better for one to turn over a carcass than to turn over his word, i.e., to break his promise. Rav further said: Skin a carcass in the market and take payment, but do not say: I am a priest, or: I am a great man, and this matter disgusts me.

רמב"ם הלכות מתנות עניים פרק י הלכה יח:

לעולם ידחוק אדם עצמו ויתגלגל בצער ואל יצטרך לבריות ואל ישליך עצמו על הצבור,
וכן צוו חכמים ואמרו עשה שבתך חול ואל תצטרך לבריות,
ואפילו היה חכם ומכובד והעני יעסוק באומנות ואפילו באומנות מנוולת ולא יצטרך לבריות,
מוטב לפשוט עור בהמות נבלות ולא יאמר לעם חכם גדול אני כהן אני פרנסוני,
ובכך צוו חכמים,
גדולי החכמים היו מהם חוטבי עצים ונושאי הקורות ושואבי מים לגנות ועושי הברזל והפחמים ולא שאלו מן הצבור ולא קיבלו מהם כשנתנו להם.

שולחן ערוך יורה דעה הלכות צדקה סימן רנה סעיף א:

לעולם ירחיק אדם עצמו מהצדקה ויגלגל עצמו בצער, שלא יצטרך לבריות. וכן צוו חכמים: עשה שבתך חול, ואל תצטרך לבריות.
ואפילו היה חכם מכובד והעני, יעסוק באומנות ואפי' באומנות מנוולת, ואל יצטרך לבריות.

When this avrech got married he gave his wife a כתובה which stated the following:

הוי לי לאנתו כדת משה וישראל ואנא אפלח ואוקיר ואיזון ואפרנס יתיכי ליכי כהלכות גוברין יהודאין דפלחין ומוקרין וזנין ומפרנסין לנשיהון בקושטא

“Be my wife according to the law of Moses and Israel. I will work, honor, feed and support you in the custom of Jewish men, who work, honor, feed, and support their wives faithfully. I will give you the settlement of [...] silver zuzim, which is due you according to [...] law, as well as your food, clothing, necessities of life, and conjugal needs, according to the universal custom.”

Does anyone listen when the כתובה is read?

Many sources posit that man is in this world so that he avoids נהמא דכיסופא (literally free bread), which means that Hashem put us on this world so that we could earn our עולם הבא so we wouldn't be embarrassed by being נהנה מזיו השכינה for free, and yet that is all this avrech is doing in this world, taking things for free. 

See this post of the Jewish Worker for additional examples.

Should everyone sit and learn Torah all day?

 The charedi hashkafa says absolutely. However there is a fascinating Gemara in Chagiga which clearly contradicts this position

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן, שְׁלֹשָׁה הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא בּוֹכֶה עֲלֵיהֶן בְּכׇל יוֹם: עַל שֶׁאֶפְשָׁר לַעֲסוֹק בַּתּוֹרָה וְאֵינוֹ עוֹסֵק, וְעַל שֶׁאִי אֶפְשָׁר לַעֲסוֹק בְּתוֹרָה וְעוֹסֵק, וְעַל פַּרְנָס הַמִּתְגָּאֶה עַל הַצִּבּוּר.

The Sages taught that there are three types of people for whom the Holy One, Blessed be He, cries every day: For one who is able to engage in Torah study and does not engage in it; and for one who is unable to engage in Torah study and nevertheless he endeavors and engages in it; and for a leader who lords over the community.

The Gemara clearly and unequivocally states that certain people aren’t meant to learn Torah and god cries when they do. To whom is the Gemara referring to? The answer would seem to be the following. God gives everyone certain talents. Some people get musical talent, some  artistic talent etc. for example, Mozart was given tremendous musical talent. If instead of using that talent and composing he would have just sat and learned Torah god would have cried. He would be wasting his god given talents on music. In the charedi worldview why does god give people musical talent, athletic talent, artistic talent etc. if all they should be doing is sitting and learning Torah anyway? The answer is that god expects everyone to use the talents that he gave them, that is what this Gemara is telling us. 

Were the Amoraim/Tannaim paragons of virtue? Part 8

 The Gemara in Taanis 24a has the following story about Rav Yosi from Yokrat:

בְּרַתֵּיה מַאי הִיא? הַוְיָא לֵיהּ בְּרַתָּא בַּעֲלַת יוֹפִי, יוֹמָא חַד חַזְיֵאּ לְהָהוּא גַּבְרָא דַּהֲוָה כָּרֵיא בְּהוּצָא וְקָא חָזֵי לַהּ. אָמַר לוֹ: מַאי הַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: רַבִּי, אִם לְלוֹקְחָהּ לֹא זָכִיתִי — לִרְאוֹתָהּ לֹא אֶזְכֶּה? אֲמַר לַהּ: בִּתִּי, קָא מְצַעֲרַתְּ לְהוּ לִבְרִיָּיתָא, שׁוּבִי לְעַפְרִיךְ וְאַל יִכָּשְׁלוּ בִּיךְ בְּנֵי אָדָם. The Gemara asks: What is the incident involving his daughter? He had a very beautiful daughter. One day Rabbi Yosei from Yokrat saw a certain man piercing a hole in the hedge surrounding his property and looking at his daughter. Rabbi Yosei said to him: What is this? The man said to him: My teacher, if I have not merited taking her in marriage, shall I not at least merit to look at her? Rabbi Yosei said to her: My daughter, you are causing people distress. Return to your dust, and let people no longer stumble into sin due to you.

Imagine he killed his own daughter because she was too beautiful and men were looking at her. Talk about blaming the victim!

Are some people born good and some born bad?

Daf Yomi just learned the Gemara in Yoma 82b-83a. The Gemara has a din that a pregnant woman that has a craving for a certain food is allowed to eat on Yom Kippur. The Gemara then relates the following 2 stories:

הָהִיא עוּבָּרָה דְּאָרַחָא, אֲתוֹ לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי, אֲמַר לְהוּ: זִילוּ לְחוּשׁוּ לַהּ דְּיוֹמָא דְכִיפּוּרֵי הוּא. לְחוּשׁוּ לָהּ וְאִילְּחִישָׁא. קָרֵי עֲלֵיהּ: ״בְּטֶרֶם אֶצָּרְךָ בַבֶּטֶן יְדַעְתִּיךָ וְגוֹ׳״. נְפַק מִינַּהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן.

הָהִיא עוּבָּרָה דְּאָרַחָא, אֲתוֹ לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי חֲנִינָא. אֲמַר לְהוּ: לְחוּשׁוּ לָהּ, וְלָא אִילְּחִישָׁא. קָרֵי עֲלֵיהּ זוֹרוּ רְשָׁעִים מֵרָחֶם״. נְפַק מִינַּהּ שַׁבְּתַאי אָצַר פֵּירֵי.

The Gemara clearly states the Rav Yochanan was already a tzadik in the womb and that שבתאי was a Rasha in the womb. 

How does that fit in with the fundamental principle of free will, that every person can choose whether to be good or bad? What choices can a child possibly make in the womb? In fact the Gemara states there is no יצר הרע until a child is born. It sounds like some people are born good and some bad. 

The Charedi view of how people make money

Mishpacha magazine has an interview with a famous Sefardi Rosh yeshiva. One of the questions he discussed is money. He was asked about people working and answered the following:

"If you’re meant to become rich, you’ll become rich anyway. It doesn’t depend on many hours and killing yourself working. The biggest batlanim can become billionaires. How do they become rich? Me’ashpos yarim evyon. Hashem gives them the mazel and they become rich."

This is so ridiculous it's silly. He is just showing his complete ignorance of how the world really works. Batlanim become billionaires? No one gets rich being a batlan. Self made millionaires or billionaires worked day and night to be successful. Starting a business and making it successful requires 100% dedication.He is just deluding himself.

Then he says:
"And who works for them? All the professionals, with their diplomas from the most famous universities — and they are barely earning a wage. It doesn’t depend on crazy hishtadlus. In other words, you can learn most of the day, serious learning, like a talmid chacham learns, and grow, and you can work a little bit."

Barely earning a wage? Many of the people who went to university are the ones who are the ones who are supporting his yeshiva. They are also the ones who pay full tuition in America to yeshivas subsidizing all of the people who didn't go to university. Again he is living in a dream world. There are very few jobs that pays a decent wage that will let you learn most of the day and only work a few hour. They just don't exist.

I would ask him a few simple questions. 

1. Look around at the people who are going schnorring because they can't support their family, marry off their children, etc. How many of them went to university? 

2. Every survey of income shows that people who went to university make ore money then people who didn't? Why is that?

This quote really blew me away:

"Because when you use your brains, you lose money. When Hashem is running your business for you, you make money, you don’t lose. And they say, you know, Rabbi, you’re right."

This is the charedi hashkafa today, everything is from Hashem, there is no cause and effect, and hishtadlus is just a tax.