Rape in Chazal

 The Torah has a very different view of rape then we do today. The Torah sees rape as injuring the father by deflowering his daughter and devaluing her in terms of marriage. The Gemara in כתובות ל"ט has the following discussion about why the rapist pays צער, pain and suffering for rape.

צַעַר דְּמַאי? אָמַר אֲבוּהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל: צַעַר שֶׁחֲבָטָהּ עַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע. מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רַבִּי זֵירָא: אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, חֲבָטָהּ עַל גַּבֵּי שִׁירָאִין, הָכִי נָמֵי דְּפָטוּר? וְכִי תֵּימָא הָכִי נָמֵי — וְהָתַנְיָא, רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן: אוֹנֵס אֵינוֹ מְשַׁלֵּם אֶת הַצַּעַר — מִפְּנֵי

שֶׁסּוֹפָהּ לְהִצְטַעֵר תַּחַת בַּעֲלָהּ. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: אֵינוֹ דּוֹמֶה נִבְעֶלֶת בְּאוֹנֶס לְנִבְעֶלֶת בְּרָצוֹן. אֶלָּא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: צַעַר שֶׁל פִּיסּוּק הָרַגְלַיִם. וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר: ״וַתְּפַשְּׂקִי אֶת רַגְלַיִךְ לְכׇל עוֹבֵר״.

אִי הָכִי, מְפוּתָּה נָמֵי! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: מָשָׁל דִּמְפוּתָּה לְמָה הַדָּבָר דּוֹמֶה? לְאָדָם שֶׁאָמַר לַחֲבֵירוֹ: קְרַע שִׁירָאִין שֶׁלִּי וְהִפָּטֵר. שֶׁלִּי?! דַּאֲבוּהּ נִינְהוּ? אֶלָּא אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: פִּקְּחוֹת שֶׁבָּהֶן אוֹמְרוֹת: מְפוּתָּה אֵין לָהּ צַעַר.

וְהָא קָא חָזֵינַן דְּאִית לַהּ? אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: אֲמַרָה לִי אֵם, כְּמַיָּא חַמִּימֵי עַל רֵישֵׁיהּ דְּקַרְחָא. רָבָא אָמַר: אֲמַרָה לִי בַּת רַב חִסְדָּא: כִּי רִיבְדָּא דְכוּסִילְתָּא. רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: אֲמַרָה לִי בַּת אַבָּא סוּרָאָה: כִּי נַהֲמָא אַקּוּשָׁא בְּחִינְכֵי.

The mishna taught that a rapist pays for the pain that he caused. The Gemara asks: For what pain is he obligated to pay? Shmuel’s father said: It is for the pain that he caused when he slammed her onto the ground while raping her. Rabbi Zeira strongly objects to this: But if what you say is so, if he slammed her onto silk, so too is the halakha that he is exempt from payment for pain? And if you say indeed that it is so, but isn’t it taught in a baraita that Rabbi Shimon ben Yehuda says in the name of Rabbi Shimon: A rapist does not pay for the pain due to the fact 

that she will ultimately suffer the same pain during intercourse when under the authority of her husband? They said to him: One who has intercourse against her will is not comparable to one who has intercourse willingly. Apparently, the pain associated with rape is a direct result of the forced intercourse and not of some associated cause. Rather, Rav Naḥman said that Rabba bar Avuh said: It refers to the pain of spreading her legs during intercourse. And likewise, the verse says: “And you opened your legs to every passerby” (Ezekiel 16:25).

The Gemara asks: If so, a seduced woman should also be obligated to make that payment as well. Rav Naḥman said that Rabba bar Avuh stated a parable: To what can this matter of a seducer be compared? It can be compared to a person who said to another: Tear my silk and be exempt from payment. Since she engaged in relations of her own volition, she certainly absolved him of payment for the pain. The Gemara asks: Tear my silk? It is not her silk, and therefore she may not waive payment for damage to it; it is the silk of her father, as the fine and the other payments are paid to him. Rather, Rav Naḥman said that Rabba bar Avuh said that the clever women among them say that a seduced woman has no pain during intercourse, as she is a willing participant. The Gemara asks: But don’t we see that even a married woman has pain when she engages in sexual relations for the first time? Abaye said: My foster mother told me that the pain is like hot water on the head of a bald man. Rava said: My wife, Rav Ḥisda’s daughter, told me that it is like the stab of a bloodletting knife. Rav Pappa said: My wife, Abba Sura’s daughter, told me that it is like the feeling of hard bread on the gums. When a woman engages in intercourse willingly, the pain is negligible. Therefore, the seducer is not obligated to pay for pain.

 I think if you asked female rape victims about the pain of rape you would get very different answers. 

Women and marriage

 

Daf Yomi this week (כתובות ע״ה) had a fascinating Gemara about women and marriage.

בְּקָרִיבֵיהּ! האִיהִי בְּכׇל דְּהוּ נִיחָא לַהּ, כִּדְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ. דְּאָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: ״טָב לְמֵיתַב טַן דּוּ מִלְּמֵיתַב אַרְמְלוּ״, אַבָּיֵי אָמַר: דְּשׁוּמְשְׁמָנָא גַּבְרָא כּוּרְסְיַהּ בֵּי חָרָאתָא רָמֵי לַהּ. ורַב פָּפָּא אָמַר: דְּנַפָּסָא גַּבְרָא, תִּיקְרְיֵיהּ בְּסִיפֵּי בָבָא וְתֵיתִיב. רַב אָשֵׁי אָמַר: דְּקַלָּסָא גַּבְרָא, לָא בָּעֲיָא טְלָפְחֵי לְקִידְרָא. תָּנָא: וְכוּלָּן מְזַנּוֹת וְתוֹלוֹת בְּבַעְלֵיהֶן.

There is a difference between a man and a woman in this regard, for it is amenable to her to be with any man, flawed though he may be, as taught by Reish Lakish: As Reish Lakish said that women say: It is better to dwell together as two [tan du] than to dwell alone as if a widow. Women will prefer any marriage to remaining single. Similarly, Abaye said that women say: One whose husband is small as an ant, nevertheless places her seat among the noblewomen, as she considers herself important by virtue of the mere fact that she is married. 6Rav Pappa said a different maxim expressing a similar idea: One whose husband is a wool comber [nafsa], a lowly occupation, calls him to sit with her at the entrance to the house, as she is proud of him and happy to be married. Similarly, Rav Ashi said: Even one whose husband is lowly [kalsa] does not require lentils for her pot. She is so happy with the simple fact that she is married that she does not mind even if he does not provide her with food. The Gemara comments that it is taught: And all of these women who have lowly husbands yet appear so satisfied with their marriage commit adultery and attribute the birth of the children to their husbands. This is another reason why they are so keen to be married

 

RYBS claimed that this chazaka is built into the nature of women and can never change.

Beautiful Breasts

 Daf Yomi just learned the following Gemara (כתובות ע"ה)

תָּנֵי רַבִּי נָתָן בִּירָאָה: בֵּין דַּדֵּי אִשָּׁה טֶפַח. סָבַר רַב אַחָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרָבָא קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב אָשֵׁי לְמֵימַר טֶפַח לִמְעַלְּיוּתָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב אָשֵׁי: גַּבֵּי מוּמִין תַּנְיָא, וְכַמָּה? אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: שָׁלֹשׁ אֶצְבָּעוֹת

 Rabbi Natan Bira’a taught: A handbreadth between a woman’s breasts. The amora’im have a dispute concerning the meaning of Rabbi Natan Bira’a’s statement: Rav Aḥa, son of Rava, thought to say before Rav Ashi that this means a handbreadth between a woman’s breasts is perfection and considered beautiful. Rav Ashi said to him: This baraita is taught with regard to blemishes, and it means that if her breasts are separated by a gap this wide, it is a blemish. The Gemara asks: And how much of a gap is considered normal? Abaye said: The width of three fingers.

This Gemara raises a number of questions:

1. The only way to see the distance between a womans breasts is to see her topless. When a woman is wearing clothes there is no way to see this. So how did Abaye know this? Did he go and stare at naked women? How many naked women did  he see besides his wife? How is this permissible?
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for some men a gap of 3 fingers is beautiful for other men it may be either smaller or larger. How can the Gemara set a rule on something like this?
3. How did they come up with these exact measurements? Did they go and measure women's chests? Does the average man when he sees beautiful breasts have any idea how far apart they are?
   
4. What is the relevance? Why does the Gemara need to tell us the definition of beautiful breasts?